Building materials manufacturers run a complex business. But we are here to help you plan for the future, whether you are launching a new product, rebuilding a brand, trying to get thoughtful communication strategies in place or everything in between here on constructing brands, we will be talking with leading experts in construction, architecture, engineering, marketing, and manufacturing to help make your building materials company stronger and more profitable with 15 plus years of experience.
Helping building materials companies succeed and grow your host, Eric LANEL.
Good morning and welcome to constructing brands. I’m here today with Rosemary Halgarton of Rosemary Halgarton Inc. And Rosemary, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much. I’m very happy to be here and have the chance to talk.
Before we get started, I want to. Provide our listeners with with five or six fun facts about you. And this is the point where you tell me if I’m wrong or if anything’s off, how’s that? We’ll start with a little game. You founded your brand Rosemary Hellgarten Inc in 2001.
Yeah.
You are a second generation crafts person following in the footsteps of your mother Gloria Finn, who collaborated with artists and their paintings were converted to floor. Art covering. Yes.
Yes.
Your products that you produce are primarily handmade by local crafts people. And I thought this was really interesting who work from their homes which allows for flexible work life schedule and promotes that kind of thing.
Yes. Yes.
I want to get
And we’re, yeah, we, yeah, we can
in the world that we went to.
It’s very interesting that you were there. Interesting to note, unique materials. That’s you draw you. And it’s a hemp from Nepal, Persian alpaca, Tibetan wool, just to name a few. There you like you’re very tactile and you like,
Yes. Yeah and the fibers, every country has different fibers that they specialize in. So
You’re, you started out your career as a jewelry maker, and then you transitioned to the textile world, which
yes.
I’m curious to hear about. And I guess the sixth, which is the, what kind of gets us back to the beginning almost is this year you were acquired by a company that’s 138 years old, a fabric wallpaper, furniture company tie butt, and you’re So let’s start there.
Oh, okay.
You, your name is your brand
Yes.
and someone comes to you and says, we really love what you’ve done with your brand. And we feel that, and I’m sure the pitch was, we will take all the things you don’t like off your hands. We will give you creative flexibility to be your own. You’ll be the CEO of the company and your creative vision will, and it sounded great.
You’re sounding a little skeptical there.
it’s your brand, right? So you, and it’s your name. And I, it’s, I always find it so fascinating when it’s that close and it’s woven, you’re selling, what do you, what are you partnering with and how are you defining it and how are you making sure that you’re protecting your person from your brand that you work so hard to develop?
So tell me about the thought process that went into that whole thing.
Okay. You forgot fact number seven, which is I’m addicted to espresso.
Oh, cheers.
like you, so cheers. Growing my company one of the things that I was encouraged to do was to actually, at some point maybe, 10 little less, my company has been about over what as a formal company, about 20 years old, a little over that.
A while ago as you, you develop from just, oh, I want to make stuff. And then you find yourself with a business and then you find yourself with a company. And I was encouraged a while ago to actually try and separate myself in terms of how I think of myself from the company. So there’s Rosemary Hall garden, And then, and the, the person who’s doing, creating everything and running the company, but Rosemary Hall Garten, the company, as you grow and evolve, the business is actually something that you have to do because it really takes on.
A life of its own now, that’s very hard to do and I never really fully did it but and you never will but I think just as part of growth It’s an important thing to do to separate me the person My needs from the company and what the company stands for So Thinking of it like that helped a little bit.
I certainly wasn’t looking to sell. I was thinking about selling maybe in five years. I realized, I’m in a few number of forums and they people will. Talking about what could be my succession plan. And it’s not really something I thought about. I have two boys neither of whom, although they’ve both been with me to Peru and, made, helped make rugs and met the artisans.
They’re not, this isn’t a business they’re going to take on sadly. So when I was approached originally I, Thank you. For a while. And, then when I started thinking about it and understanding more about Thiebaud I realized I, I was everything that you said. I was a lot more I was at the point of the company where I would need to take it to a next level and I would need to invest a whole load more money.
I would need to, get I. T. I would need to, get a really proper operations manager, probably a C. O. If you’re because my goal for the last few years has been to free myself up. Operationally and the whole company knows this and everyone’s striving to do that but it’s hard.
And the more people you have, even though you hire people to help you and they do, it’s still more people. It’s still more people to manage. So when I had this opportunity to. Partner with a company who could provide all those things. And you know what? The had the same philosophy, really understood my
brand, understood the luxury nature of it and wanted to foster that really valued me as a creative.
Then it, it seems a lot more appealing.
So that happened when
The whole, finalized a little over a month ago. Six, yeah, so still very fresh.
Now. So we have to book a date a year from today.
Yes. It is honeymoon period. So yes. And but so far so good. And yes, it, the whole process took a year and and then we finalized actually a year to the day from the kind of original email coincidentally. So that’s the story.
What are the things that in this process were interesting that you learned from it that were. Wow i never realized this was something that either a is important to me or to the party that is acquiring me or
I think as you say the most appealing besides the fact that we’re doing well as a business and, growing every year. So a lot of brands that are acquired or acquired because they’re not doing well. I love the Thiebaud has, philosophy is let’s acquire something that is doing well.
And The importance of the brand that I built, the importance of the image, of the marketing, of having built a brand, I just did what I did. I just, there was no, there wasn’t really big strategy. I just, maybe, I used to work in advertising and, Branding and advertising. Maybe that came through.
But it wasn’t, Oh, I’ve got to build this brand. It happened. I just have want to make beautiful things. I want to photograph them beautifully. I want to tell the story that I have. And all those things it turned out were actually. Very appealing. And the more you can build a brand, a unique perspective the, that, that really does have weight and it really can make your company very appealing.
You said you know i wrote tell the story beautifully right that’s thematic of the brand and so your vision and has been to. Work with artisans, get involved with not only the process, but it turning into this beautiful story and sharing that story with people receive in different ways. So uniquely interesting, right?
So unique to you. Where the acquisition, if I’m on the other side, I need to know that you’re part of this forever, right?
So keep keeping the brand and what it represents is super important to me. And I know it’s important to them and to all my team too. Because they, they love what we’ve built and have all been a part of it.
And that makes perfect sense. And my skepticism at the beginning of the, you might’ve noted, it’s not skepticism. It’s I’ve had friends and I’ve seen, as an agency we in many times are brought in by private equity who have acquired a family owned business that has grown too big for the family to really drive to the scalable. And it’s always a little bittersweet because I know I see what we do and I see how I’m not going to say little effort, but on our part, I feels like it’s not that much of an effort get it to the scalable size that it would have been. If they only nurtured it a bit
it?
and then the multiples come in and then it’s flipped again and it’s wow, did I hope they, they got the benefit of it. the Robin hood in me.
So it’s not skepticism. It’s just maybe my knee jerk when I get involved with it and I do
And experience. And that is obviously, it, listen, it’s a risk. It’s definitely a risk. And, That’s why it took a year to, do the deal. And but I care, um, I think everyone’s doing everything they can to minimize that risk. And I’ve I’ve been doing this alone for a long time.
And Part of it was also, I definitely felt ready to have a partner.
now, what did this partner say to you different than maybe other partners who were coming at you over the last couple of years what was the. What was the magic? Did it come down to saying the right thing at the right time? And what was that? And what was the winning formula that, that, that wooed you?
As always, a combination of things. I think timing, because I was really realizing I was at this crossroads of having to invest a lot more money to really scale I could have done it, I could have done it. And but I didn’t, I was pretty certain if I did it and invested in the money and the infrastructure in warehousing, that’s a big deal.
big part of it that it would have been, a greater financial burden to me and a lot more of my time taking me away from what I want to be doing. And so the timing of that Rick, the CEO, I don’t know if you know him is a great guy with Holly Han, Janice C. experience. And so he understands luxury and really values the brand.
The fact that they have warehousing, these guys have warehousing they do, wallpaper. Which is definitely something that’s been on my list for the last few years to develop and it it, just a combination of all of those things really.
how prior to this, did you balance your time? Because you had, your point, how much, it was 50 percent running the business and 50 percent working in the business.
percent 80 percent running. I don’t know how running and in fields run, I guess maybe running is 30 and 50 is in the business and. What does that leave? 30 is is the creative, focusing on
it. So now you get to flip that.
And in once the, once we’ve transitioned a few things but yes, that certainly the goal is to fairly soon flip that which is exciting.
advice would you give to to an entrepreneur who has a vision and a drive? Because it feels like part of what I’m hearing from you and the success that you’ve seen is because you weren’t looking to sell. Like you said, you were looking to be true to the vision that you had creatively, right?
And have creatively. I’m certain that there are so many times people try to take you off that vision road and shared with you all the reasons why you’d be more successful if you did this, that, or the other thing. So tell me about your conviction to the principles that. You decided were important, your own brand, you, did you do a vision, mission, value statement at the beginning?
And did you live that brand that way? Or the
No, I think we only did off. We probably did off. Yeah, we did our vision and mission. We got it written down only five years ago, and I’ve had people in the company. Few people in the company with me over 10 years around 10 years. We only wrote it down about five years ago, and I would say that is critical, critical to actually put it down because since then, and we were at a point then
we’ve grown a lot in the five years in terms of people and sales, so that is a really important part of it.
And I don’t think you necessarily can do that right at the beginning. And one of the key things that we did when we did it was we engaged the whole company, so it wasn’t me just sitting down. It was everybody’s perspective. So that was really helpful. The The from a starting point. Yes, I’m sure there are companies that can start and say, I want to build to grow and I’ll always pay attention to my bottom line. But for me, the driver was 100 percent doing something that I wanted to do and following my passion and my need to create things and really sticking with that and
maybe
being a little more extravagant at times in certain areas than I should have been.
But, I also, I like the business side of it. I do, I like having a budget
and
looking at the budget and, so my CFO and I every Monday, we, we go through scorecard and so on. And so I like that discipline.
Your knee jerk? Like I have a Monday morning report I look at every morning and it’s just like three key metrics. And I see that it shapes for me exactly what’s going on in the company.
Ours is a bit longer and he’s in charge of it. So we just go over it. The cause is a scorecard and I can’t remember. I think it comes from Traction. There’s a book,
Yeah, rocks.
Yeah, The Rocks. So we do The Rocks and the, all those things. The scorecard is a little different from that.
That’s, cash in, cash out, ship sales, book sales, all those. Then we
So you’re traction company. Okay.
we’re a Traction company. Maybe not, quite as much as we should be, but I find it very useful.
And how did that come about? You read the book and
My CFO who started five years ago, he, yeah he really brought that in.
So we, we were yeah only five years ago out of 20.
it. Got it. So if we could pivot over to the people who are the artisans. And how they do what they do and how you support that or it. Can you tell me about how that started and how, why it’s important to you and all that.
I really, when I started, I actually started by making rugs myself. I had a little studio, I was still working full time in advertising but I had a little studio in San Francisco and then I trained three women to make rugs, inspired by my mother who had done a similar thing in Italy. , over time, I realized that I was never going to make money producing in the U S in that way, doing handhook drugs.
And so I was lucky enough to be in Peru and I was actually doing a job for Pepsi in Chile and you had to go through Peru. So I stopped off in Peru because I heard they had some, there was a I had one rug contact out there. And,
always been rugs have always been something that kind of interesting to you from your mother all the way that’s been something that’s captured your attention
yes. Because she started with rugs. So I really, my starting point was rugs. And I’ve, fabrics have, I’ve been doing fabrics for about ten years. But rugs were the starting
well jewelry was the
Jewelry was the, yes. Jewelry was the beginning,
start me I’m going to I’m going to change it so you started jewelry What was the what was what you focused on and why jewelry and it just
I was my, I actually grew up in Beirut. I lived in Beirut till I was about seven. And then we moved, I was born in London. We moved there and then came back lived in London. And my mom was very involved in the contemporary craft scene then with a lot of, doing very avant garde things with jewelry.
So I think I was very influenced by that. And I would go to hardware stores when I was, 10 and get a colored telephone wire and make it into a necklace or a bracelet or stuff like that. And then I started doing knitted silver wire, doing Knitted jewelry with gold and silver wire. I was doing that from a very early age as a means to have some creative expression.
And so you’d wear it yourself you’d sell it To kids you’d sell to adults
I, no, I sold it to adults. I lived in Washington, DC for a year. Before I went to college and I was represented there. And I actually made even some clothing which which got some interest from some, someone who made porn movies actually.
But the so that
of that clothing with you here?
No that’s all gone. That was fun. And then I started learning to soldier in the more technical side of it. But I was looking for something I love fashion and very influenced by beautiful clothing and so on. And so I started gravitating towards something a lot more textural and So then, I was looking for something else to do and my mom said, Oh you don’t know this, but I actually used to make rugs.
Because she wasn’t doing it by the time I was born. And so she They, she actually still had her rug hook, which I have by me
very cool
And I started making rugs. Anyway, so then that evolved into going to Peru. And I know the minute I stepped off the plane, I just felt this this real artisanal energy.
And there’s I didn’t really know anything about Peru apart from bad scratchy sweaters that they would sell in Portobello road in London, very hippie. But I just learned more about the amazing traditions, rich textile history and the Just seeing all the work and nobody was working in alpaca at that time and or working with artisans and doing rugs there.
So I could have gone to Nepal and done the same thing. And the rug industry wasn’t nearly as developed 20 years ago as it is overdeveloped and totally
saturated as it is now. But I wanted to do something different and I want really. felt the need to do something ground up that no one else was doing.
Yeah, so that’s how it all started in Peru.
So you’ve always been a crafty person what allowed for all these travels? From Beirut to the UK to Washington to
My father was a legal advisor to unwrought. So he was a so he was stationed. He actually found himself at 60 with a baby, me and a new wife. So he had planned to retire, but he realized he needed a job. So he had the opportunity to be out in Beirut and that was when it was the Paris of the Middle East and amazing cocktail parties and archeological ruins.
It was that we go to Syria and they’ve lost us for a weekend picnic. And, it was an amazing place there and I actually have really deep memories of it. Um, then the war broke out and it was starting to get bad. So we came back to London. And then D. C. Was About a boy, met a boy so stayed there for a year and then yeah, then came back to college in the UK.
it. And that’s where you, and is that where you live now?
No I’m in Connecticut.
That’s right. I saw that. Yeah. Yeah. Which is New England.
Yes. Yes. But. But still vastly different, even though it’s New England. But a lot closer than San Francisco, which is great.
Yeah. And not as exotic, creative and inspirational, I’m guessing.
No. But I have New York at my doorstep and it’s easy, it’s quite easy to fly to South America as well as Europe, obviously. So good for that.
So what an interesting adventure,
Jewelry making, craft, needing to express yourself, that advertising job that got in the way for a minute.
And supported it, I wasn’t making money at the beginning.
It actually probably got you through Peru.
yes
is where you fell in love with.
Yeah,
And so you’re in Peru and keeping that kind of that that craft alive where people are working from home and you’re supporting that you didn’t go with the warehouse, bigger, better, get all the people, pull them together, figure out how to make more efficiencies. It was more about letting them be, letting the people who
The, these yeah, these uh, it’s proves a third world country and this, it it’s hard to, And so the rug artisans all work from they work from their homes because they set up their looms and it’s, they’re often like families of them that, that work together.
Adult
families. And so it’s really a lot. It’s a lot better for them, but they all are in one area. The fabric weavers they have they have a place that they go to and they’ve set up all their looms. So they all kind of work together in one place. But yes, I mean it’s, every time I go out I visit them all, which is really fun.
creative idea? How do you translate that to the different people you work with? The artisans, do you sketch it? Do you, what’s your process? So it’s real samples that we
Some of it is sketching, some of it is photos, some of it is, I’ll start. A lot of it starts with the yarn. So there’ll be a certain yarn type and we do a weave sample of different things. So yes, I might do a sketch or just a photo of something I like, or, a.
on a concrete floor or something like that and experiment. So it’s quite a lot of work. back and forth in terms of, because my things are so textural, there’s not that much pattern. It’s really about coming up with different weave techniques. And so it’s real samples that, that really go back and forth to come up with something.
Obviously with a rug, it’s a little easier and there’s a little bit more of a sketch that we send
What is your creative process? What, what gets you engaged, involved and is it, is, does it go first? You see something that inspires you, a fabric, a texture, and then you go from there. Or is it more of a imagine this and then finding it or how does that dance work?
It happens continually. But at different times. So it’s normally whether it’s a color that I really want to include in something or shapes shapes that I see. So I’ll cut. I’ll see something and I’ll take a photo of it and. If it sits with me and I can’t get it out of my mind and I keep coming back to it then I know, okay, this is something I want to try.
And I’ll develop a lot of different samples. Some of them I like, some of them I don’t like but they’re all in my kind of back room the, of my creative chaos room. And Then I start to pull for those as I, because I have two collections a year, so I have a table that has just sample and ideas or bits of yarn for a collection.
it,
It, it comes, there’s a lot of back and forth in terms of does this work together or not work together but that’s how the collection is born. I don’t really start off with a collection theme, I’m going to do Japan or I’m going to do ballet or whatever, it’s more
It’s really a feeling
So cool,
which really frustrates my PR people.
I’m sure. I’m sure. Do you have a camera you use? Like I’m getting this call.
call? No, but I would, I’ve always wanted to have a, like a camera actually.
We should talk after I’ve got a few. I’m a geek
I’m not technical, but I think a, like a camera’s pretty
no, like a range finder. I’m when I go on shoots with a range finder camera.
You see a field differently, and
Right.
It’s what you’re explaining a bit, it’s the whole creative expression and how, what is, what’s in focus and what’s out and
It?
A lot of dementiality. You know what? What is the thing you want someone to feel or see?
Secondary, really?
It creates a feeling and
which is the feeling I’m getting from what you’re
You create a collection.
Yeah.
not one thing. It’s several pieces of a thematic that your head come together. But you can separately. It’s hard to explain. Yeah,
Exactly. Exactly.
My final question is, Crystal ball five years from now, what are you doing?
What’s your, where’s your brand? What has been the greatest kind of opportunity and how have you brought it there?
How have I brought it there? You want how have I brought it there as well? I see it. I definitely would like to have added some more product categories, so Focus on some focus on wallpaper. Very much Keeping the luxury sensibility, but I would also like to add to the line more You know, I think of it as couture and ready to wear.
So keep on growing kind of more baseline fabrics. But yes, definitely
include
wallpaper, maybe more hospitality, maybe some furniture. And really also have the opportunity to do some more kind of one off stuff as well as unique pieces as, as well as the, the more generally saleable things.
So yeah.
So you talked about widening your offering. Yes. Profitability wasn’t part of that at all. It was just about growing the brand and making it more spectacular.
of course, if I’m going, if I’m going to be allowed to do that, then it’s got to be profitable.
Excellent. I really do appreciate your time, your energy and your authenticity. It comes through. And I think the sum that I’m getting from this is your success is truly Because , you had a vision, you, and you continue to have a vision and you’re true to that vision and you don’t go off the path that maybe other people want you to and you stay true to it.
So I appreciate that. I respect it. And I’m really happy to have met you. So thank you very much for joining us today on constructing brands.
Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity and it’s been great talking to you.
My pleasure.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
Bye.
bye.