Good morning and welcome to constructing brands. I’m so happy to have

Frederick Henry on today. No, not the Frederick Henry from a farewell

to arms. That would be cool. But the, the, the real Frederick Henry,

who is the CEO of Romo Inc, which is, well, you know what, before we

get into it, I’m going to give a few fun facts and we could get right

into Romo, the Romo

Frederic Henry (01:18.798)

would be.

ERIC (01:34.865)

okay. Founded in 1902 by Robert Mould. Yes. Mould. Mould. Okay. so

it’s 120 years old or so. it started as a furniture manufacturing

business in Nottinghamshire, England, where it’s still headquartered.

the name Romo derived from the founders initials, Robert R O Mo Old.

Frederic Henry (01:41.162)

Mold, mold,

Frederic Henry (02:01.326)

Correct.

ERIC (02:02.961)

A transition from furniture to fabric in 1930.

Frederic Henry (02:07.758)

A little bit later actually, but yeah, it’s worn a few hats, the

company, so we’ll talk about that later.

ERIC (02:14.449)

six distinct brands underneath, right? It’s it’s Romo. It’s, black

edition. It’s Kirkby design, Mark Alexander. Yep. Yep. Yep. Nova and

zinc textile. each brand has its own unique style. Philosophy. you

export to over 80 countries.

Frederic Henry (02:23.116)

Black Edition, which is a spinner. Zinc, Kirkby Design, Villanova.

You’ve got

Frederic Henry (02:36.078)

correct?

Frederic Henry (02:42.476)

Yeah, anywhere where there’s a demand for high -end textiles, you can

buy a Roamer.

ERIC (02:49.613)

And you have showrooms in basically every major fashion capital,

London, Paris, Munich, New York. For a few. And then the last…

Frederic Henry (02:59.938)

We’ve got several more in the United States as well. We’ve got more

showrooms in the US as part of the business model. We can talk about

that later. in Europe, we’re mostly presented in the larger cities.

ERIC (03:13.009)

And, and I think this is a very interesting fun fact I’ll end on,

which is remains a family owned business now in its fifth generation,

which is, which is unique, interesting. so let’s start at the

beginning. Can you tell me a little bit about the history of the

company and the family?

Frederic Henry (03:32.014)

So it is a fifth generation family owned business. That’s the theory.

I think it’s just as much a second or third generation business

because the progress that was made during that fourth generation was

astonishing basically. So what the story does tell is that your

podcast is about entrepreneurship.

And I think this is a family that’s had some very entrepreneurial

genes. You know, you start a business by the opportunities that are

presented to you. So in Nottinghamshire, it’s a little bit like the

high point of the United States is the furniture mecca of the United

Kingdom, both from a furniture manufacturing perspective, but also…

you know, anything to do anything, any peripheral businesses to do

with furniture manufacturing, including re upholstery and, so forth.

So when they, when the Robert Malt, the great grandfather started a

business, he was a furniture maker, just like there were many, many

other furniture makers. He saw an opportunity to supply other

furniture makers with materials they need for their business. So it

kind of became sort of a spin off furniture business.

which was anything to do with the tools to make the furniture, the

components that are used to make furniture the old fashioned way.

ERIC (05:01.681)

So he went wide, he went to diversify wide to cover himself. So might

as well order more of everything because I’m making it and I know what

people need who make it. So as an expert, he just developed his

business wide, deep

Frederic Henry (05:06.414)

Yeah, the 8 -way hand.

Frederic Henry (05:17.484)

I don’t know if there were actual frame components as part of that.

I’m sure there were, you know, the springs and all the things that you

need back in the day to make furniture the way it was made, you know,

a hundred years ago. And from that, they transitioned into textiles

post -war era, I think, like in the fifties or something like that.

But it was very local and it was just an add -on service.

to be able to provide fabric, basic fabrics, solids, probably, don’t

know what the skew count would have been at that point in time. So

that all happened in the 50s and they’re very quickly caught on. There

was room for more there and that was probably the more attractive part

of the business because also warehousing wise, it’s a different kettle

of fish to sell textiles versus smaller components.

more like a hardware store kind of thing. And that was sort of where

the company was until Jonathan Mould, who’s now retired. He’s been

sort of, been my boss throughout my tenure. He joined the company, not

with the intent to spend a lot of time there. He had other interests,

but you know, he needed some pocket money to finance his travels,

basically.

So he came around and then he sort of thought, well, actually I can

make this business a lot more efficient than it is. And so that was

his focus to try and get the operations a bit better as they were

expanding the product. That’s the fourth generation. So, and you know,

until that point in time, Roma was a local business in the

Nottinghamshire surroundings. don’t know.

ERIC (06:54.373)

So was that third, that was the third generation? Fourth, okay.

Frederic Henry (07:10.348)

how far they went, but certainly wasn’t all over the UK, they weren’t

in Ireland. So they gradually started expanding that then. You know,

it’s all about the time and place, you know, it was, you know, there’s

probably a bigger demand for decoration and Romo jumped on the

bandwagon and started, you know, their own studio. said, you know,

let’s do things that are just a bit nicer, a bit more exclusive that

aren’t

literally run -of -the -mill products. And that was the early 1970s

and that’s really the beginning of the design business that is Romo

today.

ERIC (07:50.673)

So if I could go, because I always remember that and I think it’s so

true and for so many businesses, the first generation creates it, the

second generation grows it. Third generation is a teeter totter,

Typically, they’ve grown up in silk and they’ve grown up feeling the

spoils of the first two generations.

Frederic Henry (08:06.357)

It is.

ERIC (08:18.671)

and they tend to either lose it or get distracted. At the generation

Frederic Henry (08:22.594)

Yeah, so I think we’re in that generation now and I don’t think

they’re going to lose it. They’re focused, but we are definitely that

last generation, the fourth generation, which is not just Jonathan. I

want to reiterate that he had two brothers. Sadly lost one brother on

a hunting accident in Africa in his, I think, 20s, even, or maybe

early 30s. So he was not really a big part of the long -term growth.

But there was another Robert Jr., another Robert Malt.

ERIC (08:36.048)

Okay.

Frederic Henry (08:52.418)

He was focused on the Kirkby design brand. but Jonathan was really

the, you know, he had it all. had the, you know, the clarity and the

vision and the people skills and the leadership skills to take that

business to the next level basically. So yeah, he’s, it’s under his

reign that, that Roma became a very important player in the Dexter

ERIC (09:16.091)

So that’s neat. So that’s in the fourth generation, it’s actually

kicked up a notch, you’re saying.

Frederic Henry (09:21.142)

Yeah, so that’s what I’m saying, like fifth generation in theory, yes,

but yeah, the fourth generation is the one where, you know, where the

magic happens.

ERIC (09:25.827)

Okay.

We’re currently in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. So as someone who

isn’t a family member, yet, you know, in charge in steering the

growth, must, I mean, that’s a difficult, difficult weave, I’m

guessing. Not to be

Frederic Henry (09:39.404)

Mm.

Frederic Henry (09:52.888)

Well, I mean, so when you join a family business and there are, let’s

face it, there are many family businesses around the world. We don’t

all just work for multinationals. There’s pros and cons. I, for me

personally, when I was a young boy, I had two ambitions, either start

my own business, whatever it would be, or, you

join a big multinational and climb the corporate ranks and try and get

as high up as I possibly could. I did always believe in myself that I

had leadership skills. The nice thing is that when I joined first Arte

who distributed Romo and then Romo, I found the boss that I think he

knew exactly what I was all about. And it was only ever going to work

if he was going to give

wrote to get things done, to follow my instincts. And he gave me so

much autonomy to just get on with things and build this company.

Obviously, along the way, there were several milestones, like even

when we opened our first showroom in New York, a lot of companies,

European companies, especially, be very, very controlling over the

aesthetic of that, what that showroom would look like.

He wasn’t like that. just said, you know, I trust you just get on with

it. And we built a beautiful showroom that we opened in 2007. And I

think throughout the years, one thing that is important about Rome as

a company is no matter which corporate showroom you walk into, you

have that common red thread. There’s a there’s an aesthetic

sensibility. There is a there’s a feeling that you get in in high end

retail as well. We say,

I know I’m at Romo because of this detail, because of that ceiling

detail, because the way the product is merchandised. so I think having

a boss that kind of lets you be your own boss was perfect for me. and

then, you know, working for a family business, yes, you don’t, you’re

not a blood relative, but you still have a lot of benefits. I can give

you an example when COVID happened

Frederic Henry (12:15.918)

that second quarter, our business was 55 % down. I mean, I was

speaking to industry peers and people were panicking and they were all

talking about layoffs and being overstaffed and stuff like that. And

Jonathan stepped in right away and said, everyone gets 28 extra

working days. We don’t know what we’re doing yet, but no one’s going

to get laid off. mean, obviously, that would have continued for a

year, it would have been different.

our business really, really picked up in that fourth quarter of 2020.

you know, I can honestly say no one lost their job. None of the base

earnings were affected. People had maybe a little bit less bonus that

year. you know, that’s the sort of thing that happens when you work

for a family business. The human element is if the people are right,

if they care about their teams and their employees,

then that’s the biggest reason to work for a family business.

ERIC (13:17.241)

I’m a hundred percent with you. I mean, I love that. And I love, you

know, the entrepreneurial risk that you need to have and the

confidence you need to have, obviously, not only in yourself, but the

confidence you have from the company that you can run with the ball

and you could make the decisions and be part of the team that really

drives it. And clearly, so I’ve got a question that, you know, there’s

an interesting, to me,

the whole, the lineage and the five generation, four slash five

generations of the company, there’s this kind of like the brand,

right? The vision, mission, value, the brand. When looking at, when

looking at Romo and thinking about the heritage and thinking of, you

mentioned something, the showrooms, the look, the feel, the, you know,

what people take from it when they walk in

it’s very much that you’re protecting a brand and people are pushing

back, but you’re the brand ambassador who’s saying, no, no, this is

what needs to be and not allowing it to move over to what someone

else’s vision might be. How is that over the years? mean, how is the

brand and the, you know, the, cause when I think of your company, I

think that

sustain this high quality brand, you know, English, you know, all the,

all the things that the American people crave that you’ve created.

Frederic Henry (14:52.344)

So branding to me is one of my favorite things in the business world

because it’s so closely aligned with overall strategy of a company. I

was never really interested in fast moving consumer goods. I’ve always

been somebody drawn to luxury brands. Storytelling is very important.

And to be authentic, that’s the other thing that is critical. You

can’t pretend to

a brand that doesn’t have a story to tell and doesn’t have some

genuine roots that created the need for that brand. So we have a

slight complexity in the sense that you have company branding. we

people are consumers or designers know us as Romo the company. And

there’s also a Romo brand underneath Romo. And that’s the reason

the name the Romo Group was kind of created to sort of make the

distinction between on the one hand the company and the company Romo

and the brand Romo and the other brands that fall under that umbrella.

I don’t love the Romo Group because it kind of makes us sound a little

bit more corporate than we are. Just so you know, our six different

brands are really managed

by creative teams that work completely independently. the output, the

aesthetic output of these brands is really their point of view. So I

think within those six brands, we could still have a bit more

distinction, but at the same time, we talked about freedom and

creation and stuff like that. They also need to have the freedom to

create what they feel is right for their brand, right? So obviously we

don’t all want to, within those six brands,

want to do the same type of product. There is a bit of overlap. think

that can still be done or executed a little bit better. yeah, branding

to me is critical. And six brands is a lot. It’s a lot to manage. You

know, when I interview people, it’s one of my go -to questions is tell

me the difference between sales and marketing. And then secondly,

what’s the point of branding? Why would we have six brands instead of

just one brand called Romo? And I’m always…

ERIC (17:15.739)

So tell me the perfect answer to that question. So I’m interviewing

you and that’s the question you get. What is it that you want to hear

or what is that you feel?

Frederic Henry (17:23.276)

Well, if I give that away, then every future candidate is going to

know that’s the answer.

ERIC (17:28.192)

Only the smart ones have done the research and homework to find this.

Frederic Henry (17:30.818)

You’re right. You’re right. You’re right. You’re right. So, but it’s

not, it’s not, there is no perfect answer because I guess all my

interview questions are very, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the

kind of get down to, you know, how do you perceive that luxury is

another question. I’ll define luxury. We can talk about that later,

but so sales for me, I would say what makes a salesperson successful.

It’s about, we talk about authenticity. It’s about the connection with

your personal connection.

with your customer and providing that customer comes in, they have a

need and we find the solution and we connect the two together. So

there’s a personal interaction. Marketing, on the other hand, is part

of a long term strategy that can have many, different tentacles. It’s

not just Instagram or social media. There’s a lot of parts and

components to that, but we’re actually trying to define our target

groups.

And for me, the most critical thing about branding as a sub component

of marketing is the intangible versus the tangible. If I buy a Mark

Alexander wall covering, have me as a customer, I can walk away with

the knowledge that it was really created by artisans with much love

and care and the quality control that came with it and everything else

that you basically

really put, you can’t put a measure on that, but it’s a feeling, it’s

a sentiment, it’s an experience. So for me, that is what marketing and

branding is all about. It’s about creating the experience. Sales is

you just be really good at your job and connect well with people. You

know your product, the two come together and you have magic that

happens without selling a car. You know, it’s just…

providing a service to our customers.

ERIC (19:29.081)

Absolutely. And you know, it’s funny, my, one of my favorite things to

do is vision mission value statements and creating in developing

brands and rebrands. And when I look at it, it’s kind of, there’s,

there’s two phases to it, right? There’s the know thyself, like who,

who are we really authentically who, what, what is it that makes this

company special, unique? What drew you to the company as, you know,

what, what are they?

What have they done? What are they doing? What do they do for real

life? know, and, once we know ourselves, then we could start

connecting dots to who is the perfect person that what is our unique

selling proposition? And then what is, who’s the perfect person group,

whatever our, our target audience, who are they and, and what do they

look like and what are they looking for? And that’s where

the branding, the marketing and the sales kind of, that’s that

beautiful gray area where they all intersect because you develop user

journeys and profiles and you start looking at these things, right?

But the cool thing about Romo or Unique is that for over a hundred

years, and it’s been handed from different leaderships through these

years.

And I might be wrong and please stop me if I am. It feels as though

there was this kind of a who are we hasn’t really changed how we speak

about ourselves might, but even though we’ve added different elements

and divisions and you know, went from furniture to componentry to all

those things, the actual attention to who we are never really, our USP

never changed.

Frederic Henry (21:06.178)

Yeah.

Frederic Henry (21:15.138)

Yeah, I don’t, I don’t fully agree. mean, there’s a lot, a lot of

truth in that. think one of the, one of the values or of, of Romo has

always been to be very service minded and to keep it real. So when I

say, you know, authenticity storytelling, I see a lot of brands out

there with such phony stories about their inspiration and have you

not, and I just, know.

I know the real story and it just makes me giggle. So if that’s what

they want to do, fine, but it’s not who we want to be. want to, we

want to, we want to tell a true story about how we design, how we

create, where we source. Everything is above board, like our service

levels as well. It’s a, it’s, it’s, it’s the backbone of the company

to just not think with this, we’re so special. No, we really want to

be.

really an outstanding partner to our customers on all levels. That

means the product has to be the best it can be. The service has to be

the best it can be. And the people that work for us, they’ve got to be

nice, warm, down to earth people that you want to be doing business

with. I hate stuffy people. we’re obviously in a very high end world

of textiles where at the end of the day, we sell to

the two percenters in America, the people that work with interior

designers are not your everyday person. So yeah, and to do that,

you’ve got to have a strategy and a focus. So that’s what we try and

do, get those three pillars.

ERIC (22:59.473)

So how has it changed? You said you didn’t agree 100 % with what I

said. Where’s

Frederic Henry (23:03.982)

Well, because the brand’s gone a lot more, you know, the company has

gone a lot more high end over the years. So, you know, you, think

that’s one of the things. So in the beginning we were just kind of,

you know, happy to deal with local retailers and reupholsterers and,

and fairly basic product. Now there really is not a single product in

the world that is off, off bounds, you know, like we, we can divide,

we can design and develop.

anything from the most high -end silk velvets to the hand -woven

product that is fairly, really expensive as well. So, no, we have

complete freedom on the luxury end of the mark, which I think we

didn’t have 20, probably certainly not 30 years ago.

ERIC (23:52.645)

So you’ve niched down from a general to a specialty, which is that

high end. And that’s the evolution in your mind.

Frederic Henry (23:59.566)

We have a brand that is more affordable, Villanova’s, that I always

call the value brand. And this really nice product in there as well.

And I’m happy with that. wouldn’t want just brands that are sort of so

expensive or so unique that they only get used for the occasional

pillow in the room. If you want to be considered for the draperies and

the furniture as well, the upholstery. So that’s where the big orders

come

ERIC (24:26.273)

Interesting. So, but the way you did it is by developing that the Romo

brand as, and I’m just using that one division as a niching and making

it upscale, high profile, and putting the time energy into the brand

that way. And instead of developing other sub, excuse me, in, of with

it, widening the brand, you developed other divisions.

or brands within the company.

Frederic Henry (24:57.784)

by need actually purely because you know when

ERIC (25:03.791)

When did that happen, by the way? In, like, in the

Frederic Henry (25:04.078)

When we, well, the ideas, it happened as soon as I started kind of

getting more involved in advising on the product that we needed. So,

so RoMo, the brands and Villanova, which were the two only brands that

we were distributing, for example, in 2007, we opened the New York

showroom, they were quintessentially English. And, I’m saying that

with the slides, you know, they were very sort

print driven, quite floral, a lot of planes, lot of quite feminine in

a way. And I was seeing some of these more architectural brands out

there that were more masculine and monochromatic and that I liked

aesthetically so much more than what we had in Romo, even though Romo

had good basics. So one day I did a presentation to Jonathan, the CEO,

and I literally had a random amount of competitor samples from

15 to 30 different companies. And I laid 200 samples out and said, to

me, this is the look for a brand. And you of looked at Emily, who’s

design director now, this is daughter. And she said, well, I’d want to

do a brand like that. So that’s how Zinc was born, basically. That was

sort of the male, this is male opposite to

to the Romo brand and that’s something I was really excited about. And

we then were lucky enough that Justin Ma, who’s the design director of

Zinc, had knocked on the Romo door six months before and he’d been the

design director for Andrew Martin, very well known furniture brand in

the UK as well, but definitely had some of that more masculine roots.

So Jonathan gave him a call and said, like, we’ve got a project for

at the same time. So he was all of a sudden, let’s, let’s expand.

Let’s, let’s think branding. Let’s see what, what else we can do. And,

Mark Alexander, that brand are the former owners of Hotsill Mackenzie,

that sold their business to Zimmern Road. And they just wanted, wanted

to start something new. So, so they were advised by one of our

showroom agents to speak to, to Romo and,

Frederic Henry (27:25.582)

Did a presentation in the UK and I wasn’t even that crazy about what

they were showing at the time because they were very sort of pastel

colors. I don’t know, it wasn’t really over the moon but Mark

Alexander today is night and day from what it was like when we first

started out. But anyway, we launched those two brands in 2010 and it

was at a time that most people were doing the complete opposite. They

were reducing the SQ count

ERIC (27:36.442)

Mm

Frederic Henry (27:54.451)

We just came out of a recession, but for us…

ERIC (27:56.987)

But you decided to instead of, so how bold you said, I think we need

to widen our offering in effect because it wasn’t speaking to you as a

consumer. And you saw a market that you felt was on tap that you could

really go after and to grow the brand obviously, but instead of

putting it in as a Romo line extension or more skews,

Frederic Henry (28:07.124)

Yeah.

ERIC (28:24.623)

You decided to create something different. was that, what, what was

the, was it because that way it’s really not going to be that big a

risk if it fails because it won’t in any

Frederic Henry (28:33.91)

No, I simply wanted to appeal to the people that didn’t like Romo. So

it’s like that, that’s, this is, this is from Romo. This is from, from

the same guys. I love, I love that stuff.

ERIC (28:38.169)

Okay.

ERIC (28:41.839)

So want to clear a clear shot at it without any, but it’s still one in

the Romo group. So it was still backed by that brand, right? You had

that leverage or

Frederic Henry (28:49.516)

Yeah. Well, the operational side, the service levels were back by

Roma, but from the aesthetic point of view and from the people

executing the brand had nothing to do with Roma. So it was a complete

departure. I’ve mentioned this and I pitched it and I also said we,

you know, we were very, we were, we were creating very formulated

brands for the retail market. So, so everything like if Roma did a

plane collection,

ERIC (29:04.899)

Is that how you pitched it? Is that how you pitched it to Jonathan?

Frederic Henry (29:18.062)

want to turn out at least 30 colors or something. I said, can have

such a shame. Sometimes you come across a beautiful fabric that just

works in only three colors. And why wouldn’t we do that? that sort of

was the whole philosophy of just doing things from a very different

perspective and a lot more the way that the American market works, to

be honest with you. So they were two total bullseye moves because

within two years, those brands

We’re doing more than $5 million in business. it’s always, you when

you want to expand your business model, you have two options. You go

out and buy some brands and, you know, hopefully that creative person

that’s behind that brand continues to give the same dedication they

gave to their own business before, or you actually just do the total

grassroots.

start from zero, invest heavily and wait for the sales to come. And

that’s what we’ve done with every single one of our brands. there are,

it’s worked out. you can definitely do, you can do either and you can

be very successful. Like one of another British company that I respect

a lot, Colfex and Fowler, they are named count and it’s out in

America. They did that. The owner, David Green, he bought

very well established American brands, Larsen, which I loved, and

Katnett and Tad. So they moved their English distribution under those

two brands and with a strong name that was very well established. So

we didn’t have that. We just did it all on the Romo name and started

with brands where everybody would say, who are these guys? What is

this? Where is this coming from? I like it. I don’t like it. but yeah,

like Zink really was so…

on the money at the time because it was very urban. It had like this

little play with the seventies vibes and a little bit of bling in

there, some like a little bit metallics and stuff like that that we

weren’t really touching on in Roman, but it was very, very off the

moment. yeah.

ERIC (31:30.245)

Well, buyer build is such an interesting kind of concept, right? When

you’re thinking about a new brand now, but you, went with build,

right? But then, how much of the thought was distribution into other

markets? Because if you, one of the benefits of buy is you could buy

built in distribution, right? if it’s build, but your distribution

philosophy, I think at your company is a little different than

Frederic Henry (31:38.658)

Thank you.

Frederic Henry (31:51.554)

Correct. Yeah.

ERIC (31:58.873)

a buy would offer, correct?

Frederic Henry (32:01.506)

I think, mean, if we were, if we’re doing it today, there are, there

are definitely some, some companies out there that, that would be an

appealing buyer for Romo because they have the worldwide distribution.

And just by moving that product that is, for example, very good into

our distribution channel, we could double or even triple that turnover

within a year. There are such opportunities out there.

ERIC (32:23.845)

Be right

And that’s the reverse of what I was saying, by the way, because back

then the distribution opportunity would be going into America, for

instance, versus now because your distribution is so strong. you have

another opportunity.

Frederic Henry (32:39.256)

But back then we were just clawing our way up the ladder. But it was

going very fast. Year after year, we had double -digit growth. We

growing leaps and bounds. But we were still a relatively speaking

small player. Today, we stand amongst the big American companies as a

European company, which is good.

ERIC (33:08.569)

I have two more questions and I’ll throw them both at you and you

could kind of answer them how you wish. one is pivoting off of that.

do want to know about that, that meeting with, with Jonathan, where

you really felt strongly about something and it just, wasn’t right.

And at what point did you realize whatever your, your, your thought

was, you didn’t, you felt it wasn’t going to be the right thing and

how that kind

evolved and how you pulled out or changed the direction or evolved it.

Question one, question two, because you might want to incorporate

distribution. The challenge and taking on, you know, like, and I’ve

spoken to different folks who took on the U .S. and tell me that it’s

like 40 different European countries because the U .S. is

very different, the different states and the different laws and the

different ways in which they work.

Frederic Henry (34:09.742)

I couldn’t disagree more. yeah, so for me, the US is the dream market

because in Europe, we literally have a whole set of legislation that

is different in France and Austria and Belgium and in Spain and Italy,

we might be a European Union, but they’re still independent countries.

doing business means a lot more bureaucracy.

ERIC (34:11.853)

Okay, tell me about

Frederic Henry (34:37.858)

to just roll it out. Now, in the US, yes, there are some aesthetic

differences, they’re not, trust me, if something’s popular in one

area, you’ll sell it across the whole United States. There are

specific things, like I think San Francisco has a very specific

aesthetic that is so much more natural. They love their woods and they

love their walls and their organic materials. New York’s got a bit of

everything because it’s quite transient. Miami is definitely,

I’d say the more blingy city of the United States. you know, so there

are regional differences, but in terms of rolling out a business, you

know, it’s amazing. Like you have a market of, you know, a population

of 330 million, I don’t know what we are in the States, something like

that. Obviously, we’re focusing on a small niche there.

But then on top of that, it’s also the wealthiest country in the

world. if you’re in the luxury goods business, this is such a dream

market. for me, if you do it right, America should always be

everybody’s number one focus. So that’s my answer to number two. Now,

question number one, if I rephrase it and I remember it well, is like,

when did we make a mistake or regret making a decision that

ERIC (35:52.847)

Love it. Love it.

Frederic Henry (36:05.24)

probably should have done something differently. There haven’t been

too many of those, I’ll be very honest. The big personal mistake I

made was like, I used to hedge our foreign currency exposure by buying

forward contracts because we pay our products in foreign currency and

in pounds. And we also distributed a brand from Belgium or Mexico. So

we pay them in euros. Really, really nice brand as well.

ERIC (36:07.439)

Yeah.

Frederic Henry (36:32.846)

and very complimentary to what we do because they only sell wall

coverings. Anyway, so for five, six, seven years, I was a complete

hero because I was making, at least I thought that I was making, you

know, I beating the market. We were paying a lot less than what the

spot rates were. And then I think it was in 2007, the pound just went

to absolutely nothing. mean, it got so strong and we were

paying a lot more for our pounds than the spot rate was. So all those

good gains that I had accumulated over the years, they were out the

window. And that’s a time when Jonathan said to me, okay, you learned

your lesson. You’re not buying any forward contracts anymore. We’re

just going to go at the spot rate, whatever it is, it is. And we’ve

never bought another forward contract since. So that was a clear

mistake that I made. in terms

strategy and the moves you made and the timing of it. I think it was

really well executed. have no regrets. We’ve really picked the right

markets to go off to the right size showroom, the right people,

because that is at the end of the day. I always want to say that we

have built a beautiful business, but I’m more proud of the people that

wave the Romo flag. They are really quality individuals, good values.

Yeah, they just, they don’t need a lot of micromanaging and that’s

what it’s all

ERIC (38:07.311)

Where do you see the future of the industry and how are you pivoting

or kind of getting yourself ready for it?

Frederic Henry (38:18.562)

Well, I mean, there’s so many tiers of the market, right? So, you

know, there’s tons of home goods stores and there is quote unquote

fabric available for everyone. And I like to remind people as well,

think one of the pre questions was about the fact that we’re not a

household name. We don’t sell a finished good, we sell an intermediate

good to a designer. So the name of that design is more important. If

you sell furniture, for example, you’re selling a finished article,

you can

spend a lot more time on that branding. We’re just selling a component

of a piece of furniture or a component of room. Wall coverings is a

little bit different because you could market that B2C and be very

successful. We are strictly B2B. Where am I going with this?

ERIC (39:05.361)

So, you know, no, no, no. And, and I appreciate that. And that, that

is a, that is a great kind of step back because at what point is the

manufacturer, the person who’s creating the components and it’s not

dealing with the consumer. At what point are they helping push change

and, reacting to, and at what point is it the designer who maybe is on

the forefront working directly with the consumer, right?

Frederic Henry (39:34.775)

Right,

ERIC (39:35.269)

That’s kind of, so what, what responsibility do you have in that mix

of where the future is going and how you’re kind of pivoting to

Frederic Henry (39:44.526)

So because we’re very focused on the B2B, the design industry, I think

going forward, everything’s going to become more digital, whether

that’s even at our level or at a more generic level. I think there’s

going to be a lot of fabric possibly sold through the Amazons or the

world by the running meter. So anyone that wants to mess around with

that will have an opportunity.

I think that’s why it’s so important to focus on the luxury market and

the people that actually want to work with an interior designer and

want the best of the best. So as long as we focused on that, I don’t

see massive changes in that part of the business for the next decade.

I don’t like to see beyond that because things change so quickly all

the time.

ERIC (40:36.413)

It’s funny, when you first said the digital, was like, whoa, I think I

disagree. Like this is interesting. Like this is actually, because as

things progress so much, I’ll give you an example. I’m a photographer.

I like taking pictures. I’ve got Leicas, Hasselblad’s, you know, we

use Sony’s for most of our production work just because that sensors

are really good sensor. But there’s something nostalgic and wonderful

about those other cameras I mentioned.

Well, I just got back, I’m actually shooting now medium format film. I

went back to that, the old, know, one by one film that you might

remember from yesteryear. And I’ve been doing some headshots and

people are coming out of the woodwork saying, that is so unique or

interesting.

To me, I equate that to as we move so much farther and quicker into

the future, there’s this group of people, I think, who respect and

appreciate the work, the hard work, attention to detail, and all that

goes into creating that unique product, which, and that I equate to

you guys. don’t know if I’m, it’s the hand, the fabric that’s actually

done by seamstresses that are actually not,

computerized and done on a line that has been darn near perfect, but

the imperfections are the beauty in many cases, as we look toward the

future. Do you agree? Like how does your, your brand and your company

fit within that kind of conversation?

Frederic Henry (42:07.48)

Yeah.

Frederic Henry (42:16.012)

Well, imperfections. I got to take that with a grain of salt because

there’s not a room for imperfections. People do want, you know,

consistent. They want the colors right. And the end user that’s going

to receive a sofa made up with our fabric, if it’s not holding up,

then they’re going to come back to us. So, yeah.

ERIC (42:35.89)

Point well taken and you’re very you’ve got the literal award. got you

there, but you know where I’m going with this thematically. Yeah.

Frederic Henry (42:40.45)

Yeah. I know where you’re going with it. the beauty of it as well is

like this whole little niche industry that we’re in, there is room for

a lot of different players and I’d say very artisanal brands to

slightly more developed brands, but there’s never going to be sort of

a dominating force that’s

wreaking havoc on consumers and basically like, you know, dominate

like Amazon does, that’s never gonna happen in our business. So yeah,

may it long continue. I think the digital components to get back to

that is gonna change the business processes a lot in terms of

selections, in terms of visualizations, you know, where we all used to

have to sit on a piece of furniture and see that like a fabric on top

of it to really know what it was gonna look like.

Nowadays you get such realistic renders of things. you know, all that

part AI especially, it’s like unbelievable what that’s creating these

days. Like even all the top architectural firms in the world that do

the most revolutionary pieces of architecture like Azhar, Adit and

those companies, all their basic homework starts with AI these days.

And they’re the people

we think of as the most creative, most future forward thinking firms

in the world. yeah, it’s interesting to see where we land in that

whole atmosphere.

ERIC (44:17.241)

Now the job of a manufacturer typically is to develop content creative

and develop assets that distribution can take to the street, right?

Take to the designers. And so how are things, how are you thinking

about developing things now and into the future? Does that mean

bringing in programmers and coders to create AI hiring agencies that

are experts in it to develop that content? Like

What, where do you, how are you taking that

Frederic Henry (44:48.268)

Yeah, we’re not really on the AI train too much yet. We’re aware of

it. We’re kind of seeing there are a couple other companies in the

industry, not so much on the distribution side, but the supply to

distributors. There’s a Belgian company there, very, very tax savvy,

that are really focused on that at the moment. I feel we need to first

and foremost,

get all our basic technology on point, which means that the best

shopping experience online, the digital shopping experience where you

can scan all your memos, where you’re able to see what you sourced on

a showroom visit and what the stock level of that item is. So just the

kind of basic quality meat and bones of the business. Let’s get that

right first. Then we can see how we can incorporate AI and all of

that.

ERIC (45:43.877)

What’s the biggest challenge opportunity at this moment that you’re

taking on to help grow and help your audience, designer, what is the

thing that you’re thinking about now that’s gonna help them represent

your product best?

Frederic Henry (46:04.984)

Hmm, that’s many different things because you always have to look, you

know, we have so many different IT projects in the pipeline. There’s

CRM happening. There’s say there’s the scanning, the app, all those

things are in constant develop. Yeah, all of that.

ERIC (46:20.443)

to an app, a CRM tool, so marketing, remarketing, getting people in a

funnel strategy, that’s one thing. Your webpage and how people

interact with it, that’s another. Is there one that jumps out to head

like, my gosh, that’s gonna be something that really is gonna help a

designer know how to work with us or that’s gonna help them in

general.

Frederic Henry (46:47.724)

No, not really. mean, I think just smoothing out old fashioned

processes and make them give information at the snap of a finger.

That’s what it all comes down to, think, just to make it very easy for

people to… We all forget things. We forget what we were thinking

about yesterday, like what samples we took, or just to be able to

have… To make it easy for somebody

to connect back to a data point and have the answers, I think that’s

already a huge step forward. So we’re working on those things.

ERIC (47:23.525)

That’s great. that makes perfect. So that’s kind of like a CRM

remarketing, get you back into the, what you were looking at and

remind you of why.

Frederic Henry (47:31.98)

I mean, obviously we have data mining or data is everything for a

company to know what the aesthetic of a customer might be and stuff

like that. But it’s not just to sort of suck commercial success out of

that. It’s also to be able to provide tools for designers. You did use

that fabric five years ago on that project with that side note. And

yes, we can still get it for you or we have this as an alternative.

You know, it’s that sort of stuff that I think we need to focus on in

the short term and definitely keep our eyes open because the world is

changing at such a rapid pace. So this very same question you asked me

two years ago, three years ago, I might have a completely different

set of answers.

ERIC (48:21.859)

Makes sense, it makes sense. And I love the fact that you’re looking

at such a wide game and there’s so many different pieces of it. But

how to make the user experience, it keeps coming back to the whole

user experience and making sure that it’s in the same vein that it’s

intended to, which is upscale and depending on what brand it is that

you’re creating the content and everything that’s gonna help in the

user journey, right?

What we said at beginning, it’s sales and marketing, right? That’s

kind of where it keeps coming back. That’s right, that’s right.

Frederic Henry (48:55.416)

Sales and marketing, my two favorite things in business, nothing

better than those two components. No, and I worked for Deloitte, I

worked on the accounting side, that was the first part of my career

and I’m very happy I did that, I learned a lot but man, I’m happy I’m

not doing that for a living.

ERIC (49:01.145)

and not hedging and finance.

ERIC (49:20.177)

Well, I appreciate your time here today. Thank you very much for

joining us on Constructing Brands. Frederick Henry, thank you, sir.

Frederic Henry (49:28.448)

Yes, was a real pleasure. I could keep talking to you for the next

two, three hours, we’ll have to revisit it someday. Okay. Thank you so

much.

ERIC (49:35.013)

Well, think sounds like a plan. I welcome that. Thank you, sir.